Fuck you. Fuck you for delegitimizing identities and thinking that this is all a fucking joke. You think that social justice has become a joke, well, it’s because of people like you who would rather make it into a joke than be acknowledging of so much diversity in the world. You admitted it yourselves. You are the joke, not us. You get to just go home at the end of the day and laugh about it. You say we are trivializing oppression, but who are the ones who made a whole blog just to laugh at identities you think don’t matter? To pretend about it? It’s you, not us. You are the ones trivializing oppression, not us.
Your betrayal of trust is really very disgusting and profoundly upsetting.
And fuck you for making fun of my friends.
There have been people in the otherkin community that just don’t get what they’re doing wrong. So I thought that I would try to voice my opinion on them.
The root issue is that otherkin have compared and likened themselves to trans* people, when there is a huge huge difference between the two and…
Hey hi, would you mind linking to exact posts where cis+heterosexual otherkin have compared themselves to trans* folk? You seem to be very keen on linking things, so perhaps this could be something to link! This way kin may deal with those in our community on our own.
Not only that, but you stated that we like to liken ourselves to those of the GSRM communities who have ‘real problems’ - a statement that erases experiences of kin who have very real problems. There are those of use who have been abused, threatened, nearly murdered, and there is even an account (or there could be more, though I’m not sure as I’m not in any otherkin communities off tumblr) of an otherkin being raped simply because they identify as otherkin. These are real problems and you can bet your ass these problems would crop up a lot more if otherkin were a more visible minority.
But you know, thank you for erasing the damage that occurs to otherkin simply because you find it ‘illogical’.
Also, important note: There are absolutely no scientific studies on otherkin. You cannot claim that there’s no scientific backing when there has been nothing done. Those studies on the trans* community also tend to erase nonbinary folk like myself, so please be careful with how much you sling those around. :/
Honest to god if you continue with the way you all treat ‘Kin, the community will be oppressed, and more so than a lot of minorities considering the abuse every single ‘kin gets.
Oppression is not some elusive club, quit attacking the community for, god forbid, mentioning oppression. The few I know who actually say that the community is oppressed are speaking for what they have seen and heard happen in the physical world to the ‘Kin that are out.
Everyone who abuses ‘kin, for using the “O” word, must not understand what it is because they are taking part in the creation of it, or already are depending on which definition you use.
Because people don’t seem to understand what oppression actually means I thought I should share the definition of the word and it’s origin.
The origin of the word oppression:
L. oppressionem (nom. oppressio), noun of action from pp. stemof opprimere.
Meaning “action of weighing on someone’s mind or spirits” is from late 14c.
Oppression is defined as:
1.the act of subjugating by cruelty, force, etc or the state of being subjugated in this way
2.the condition of being afflicted or tormented.
3.the condition of having something lying heavily on one’s mind, imagination,etc
4.the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.
5.an act or instance of oppressing.
6.the state of being oppressed.
7.the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, anxiety, etc.
When redirected to the word oppress these definitions came up:
1.to subjugate by cruelty, force, etc
2.to afflict or torment
3.to lie heavy on (the mind, imagination, etc)
4.an obsolete word for overwhelm
5.to burden with cruel or unjust impositions or restraints; subject to a burdensome or harsh exercise of authority or power: a people oppressed by totalitarianism.
6.to lie heavily upon (the mind, a person, etc.): Care and sorrow oppressed them.
7.to weigh down, as sleep or weariness does.
8.Archaic . to put down; subdue or suppress.
9.Archaic . to press upon or against; crush.If you hate on what I say I will not respond to it because I do not care, unless I think it’s funny then I’ll share it with my friends.
Okay so when did oppressed minorities HAVE to have something physical about them that explains who or what they are? I’m pretty sure a lot of beings who are attacked for sex, gender, identity… etc. are oppressed VIA word of mouth?
I know beings do different things to make themselves more comfortable sometimes, but not every being does that? I just happened upon that great big post, and it didn’t really seem to make an awful lot of sense to me I suppose. You don’t have to have some sort of physical anomaly to be rendered an oppressed individual. It depends on personal experience in every day life.
If you want to see what I’m on about the original post is here.
Oh and might I add- some of the tags used here are particularly uncalled for:
#Felinekin #werewolves #Otherkin #faries #fae #faekin #elves #elven children #social justice #oppression #not really oppression
#hate where there is none #Looking for hate in all the wrong places #psychobabble #crazy
A brief conversation with another individual regarding aerational’s post elicited some thoughts and ideas.
For reference, this is the post in question;
While aerational does make a point that what is observed can hardly be called oppression, I did feel the argument wasn’t entirely bullet-proof.
Oppression need not be ‘systematic targeting by an authority’ as simply enough people being against otherkin, in a decentralized manner, could be considered oppression.
Lookie here- http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oppression
and here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppression
Whether oppression exists, and to what degree, appears to be subjective and dependent on who you ask. It’s a behavioral event, with a psychological response. Some can shrug it off, while others turn into a sniveling pile of tears at the first challenge. As it stands, I’m going to have to agree with aerational that what ‘kinfolk are experiencing on Tumblr is not oppression.
Now as for what is being experienced; I’m inclined to think it is an internet cultural response to growing awareness of individuals, and groups, who appear strange. This is hardly a new response to civilization, just the medium has changed. As has been pointed out numerous times, people genuinely believing themselves to be non-human critters appear to be batshit insane.
What response is given to this impression? Righteous indignation, smug superiority, and cries of oppression. (There are numerous positive exceptions, and I commend them)
Seriously? This response doesn’t fly and only invites further attention to the strangeness. Hell, it even becomes entertaining for some when the bunny with two heads starts whimpering every time it gets poked with the proverbial stick.
This being the internet, having a spine and some skin thickness is mandatory. Lacking the above to keep emotional baggage and other offal from falling out at least have the courtesy to avoid stinking things up with overly-dramatic public tales of woe; it only attracts more flies.
The issue, from my perspective, boils down to one of presentation. One can have all the most amazing and wonderful beliefs in the world, but whether it is received as such depends on how it is expressed and whether the audience has a positive view of the content. Trolls will be trolls; this medium permits their existence and they are part of the ecology; work with this factor or go find a community that keeps them at bay. Everyone else one may be writing for may not have the necessary base understanding and context to understand these experiences, enhancing their strangeness and difficulty in understanding.
Decent communication/writing skills and how to apply them is information freely available online. If not applied correctly, with some discretion thrown in, people can and do react with confusion and negative feedback. If one goes the ‘righteous indignation, smug superiority, and cries of oppression’ route then negative feedback and prodding is a near certainty. Even with the best presentation and effort there will still be negative feedback because people are people, and they can choose how to behave. One just has to let it roll off because the challenges involved are what make the rewards worthwhile and make this whole ‘kin thing more than some fad.
Tumblr is not an accurate representation of the otherkin community, nor is it a good place to learn about otherkin if you’re a curious newcomer.
- Same applies to newly awakened kin, turn back while you can and do a google search first, find the forums or groups on LJ and DW.
- If anyone wants a…
Oh snap! Rogue says otherkin don’t think they are oppressed! All the kin saying they are oppressed must have been my imagination.
No the few otherkin saying. The majority have and have said from moment one that otherkin are not oppressed. Two incidenst of violence, no matter how unfortunate, do not oppression make. And if you can handle trolling online WHY ARE YOU ON THE INTERNET!
The majority of the kin YOU hang out with may think something, but have you polled every otherkin?
The majority of the kin EVERYWHERE, not just the ones I hang out with. Most of the kin HERE don’t think we’re oppressed. Are you seriously that blind that you can’t see it or are you just ignoring everything that dosen’t fit with your ‘boo-hoo poor little me’ fantasy?
Stop telling each other how to feel. Show some fucking unity. If you don’t think you’re oppressed, fine. Stop screaming about how kin aren’t opressed, because you’re most likely only saying that to protect your own image so trolls like you better then everyone else.
We get enough hate from everyone else, we don’t need it from each other. but if you do express feelings of not being oppressed, please do it in a respectful manner.
Oppression doesn’t happen on an individual level, we can’t speak about how some otherkin are oppressed and some aren’t. The debate here is whether otherkin as a group are oppressed. So “I feel oppressed!” or “I don’t feel oppressed” are not valid arguments.
“I began to list my personal quirks and foibles in my head and discovered that every single one could somehow be related to being a dragon. Being overweight? I’m used to supporting a massive frame, of course I eat a lot! Being reticent and socially anxious? My species is solitary! The list goes on and on, in big ways and small. I began to relate everything back to being a dragon.”
This a really good account of an ex-‘otherkin’, or someone using “therianthropy as a coping mechanism”. In this post I was looking at the phenomenon from a societal/philosophical angle, but this really makes clear the psychological benefits - so to speak - of this kind of reconstructed identity, at least to the committed believer. Which is itself worrying - no, it’s not oppressive to tell someone to “accept they’re human” - but it explains the attraction of and the fervency with which the beliefs are held.
What I didn’t get round to discussing in that last post was the extent to which pre-modern, pre-industrial societies would have had (and presumably still do, to the extent that they still exist) less strictly logical and circumscribed notions of individuality, being more open to things like the transmigration of souls or animalistic beliefs. At least in the West*, organised religion - monotheistic Christianity, Judaism and Islam - would have put a lid on it, suppressing looser spiritual traditions in favour of a more easily controllable relationship between the individual and an omnipotent God. Something which Protestantism then reinforced in the sense of individual, and so on through capitalism and in tandem with a less-than-theistic Enlightenment, to what we consider to be our empirically-based rationality today. Such spiritualism as still exists is pushed to the fringes of both secular society and (outside the calcified notions of established divinity) religious activity, although there seem to be plenty of people willing to reject rationality in favour of superstition (such as psychics or angel therapy) or distort it into pseudoscience (complementary therapies or, more metaphysically, these very home-grown identities).
Spirituality will always exist wherever people feel dissatisfied with both the logic of a secular worldview and the dwindling relevance of the mainstream religious one, but here (and outside the simple psychological yearning for some explanation of the self), two further factors are at work: one, an escapist desire from the culture of everyday life (although due to the pervasiveness and easily accessible depth of that culture, something within it but sufficiently exotic will do); and two, an adoption of the feminist or postmodernist critique of knowledge in which to define or negate any conception of truth is to restrict someone else’s experiences, and thus personal experience becomes the yardstick of knowledge. The latter which is solipsistically known by everyone, but is only presentable as outside proof in very particular circumstances, usually when personal experience accords with the ‘objective’ recognised reality (cis-truth, one could say) or when… well, that’s it really - whenever experience and reality are in agreement, or are agreed to be.
The only change is that postmodernism and feminism gave a language with which to challenge that apparent agreement, or in this case disagreement; and which can be used to rectify longstanding social oppression… or to justify some really weird spiritual beliefs (and in the case of transablism and probably a lot of otherkin or ‘multiples’, support some serious emotional and/or psychological disturbances). Ironically they wouldn’t need to be justified if there wasn’t the lingering desire to fit in with the holistic, rationalist worldview that (almost inevitably) rejects them and (dubiously) ‘oppresses’ them; in other words, there are plenty of people whose spiritual beliefs seek and receive no credence from the ‘rational’ world**. It’s a tragedy that for many of those who feel themselves as otherkin the psychological drive and philosophical framework of their ‘identity’ pushes them towards claiming, at least rhetorically, the rights of queer or transgender people. (I say rhetorically because I doubt very many sincerely believe they could convince most others, and fear there is at least a subconscious desire to garner the position of victimhood.) If a bad workman blames his tools, then equally a good workman’s tools can be used badly by someone else.
*And in the East, I’m guessing a very organised and strict, if not monotheistic, religion such as Shintoism, insofar as it helped create the warrior code of Bushido, did a fair job of marshalling individualism towards socially cohesive ends. So by saying “at least in the West” I’m not implying any Eastern difference in this regard as much as acknowledging my lack of familiarity with the social context of religions outside the Judeo-Christian-Abrahamic tradition. Although I do believe that there is a strain of the Hindu-Buddhist tradition, of an-atman or ‘no-self’, culminating in that of Zen, that prefigures much of Western postmodernism and its erasure of the easily defined individual.
**Oddly enough, this is where ‘transablism’ - as a concept, not necessarily a word - makes sense to me. If we accept that disability is at least partially a social construct and that beyond the physical effects of impairment it should not be considered objectively ‘bad’ or ‘unwanted’, then those with a persistent psychological disorder affecting their perception of their body should be allowed explore a bodily integrity/identity that is outside what they have been physically given (but not in itself outside what we consider ‘normal’ in the wide variety of human beings, with or without certain abilities).
that at one point they all called gay and trans* people crazy and such. at one point mental illness meant you were dangerous and needed to be locked away. hell, at one point being a woman meant you had no rights and had to do what a man said. being black meant you had to be a slave for white…
You’re comparing being forced into slavery because of your ethnicity with middle-class people saying they’re really a (very specific type of) wolf, jellyfish, butterfly, seagull, etc…?
no. i never said i was making a comparison.
my point is that a ton of things and types of people were once treated horribly but in time it changed ._.
peopledicks on the internet try to read far too much into simple statements? jesus christ.
Change isn’t a sure thing, and by calling up those examples I’ll still hold on to the idea that you were comparing these things side by side, as equals. Presumably because of boredom. Guys in tin foil hats have been around for a while, with their UFO theories. We haven’t come close to welcoming them and their “enlightened” culture. That said, please continue to tell everyone how you are treated so horribly, what with your internet access and probably slightly concerned parents/friends/peers…
I know of one multiple system (who is NOT diagnosed with any of the disorders usually used to pathologize multiplicity) who experienced housing discrimination related to being a system.
I also know of people who’ve been disowned for coming out as one of those.
WERE YOU SAYING SOMETHING.
So why again are you advertising being a multiple system to people who are not likely to take it well? It’s not like a stamp on you that gets you discriminated upon on sight; you have to make a conscious choice to provoke people with a disagreeable idea.
Do you value people’s honest reactions over having stable housing? If so, are you trying to make a point or do you enjoy the response you do receive?
First, read this: http://comments.deviantart.com/1/224153989/2618178898 If you still don’t get it, then read on.
My partner and I are both transgender and are perceived as a same-sex couple. Many people find the idea of same-sex couples to be disagreeable, and transgender people to be moreso, so should we be forced to pretend to be cisgender, heterosexual buddies when trying to find a place to live and when living with roommates to avoid “provoking” people? Even if we live with a straight couple who is able to have sloppy makeout sessions on the couch in front of us, because straight couples aren’t disagreeable? Is it really fair to expect us to hide who we are and live in fear of someone noticing just to have “stable” housing? (how is that stable housing anyways?)
Because that’s what you’re saying.
The ONLY problem that they mentioned was roommates. People they have to live with. Not landlords, roommates. Being closeted about being multiple in your own house is an unreasonable expectation. It is a massive stress and makes your own home unsafe. That is NOT stable housing, that is a VERY unstable and dagerous situation.
If they fail to mention being multiple and their roommate/s notice that they act “strange” and become uncomfortable- then they can just as easily get kicked out again. And this time they’ll be seen as deceivers for not disclosing it first.
By telling their potential roommates about being multiple, they are trying to ensure that they get housing where they will not have to live in fear. What they are doing is trying to ensure that the housing they get genuinely is stable.
Are you really telling me that trying to avoid having to live in fear of your housing being lost is unreasonable?
they are a system with 100% co-consciousness. they are not a DID system with any dysfunction whatsoever. they are able to make decisions about their appearance, their actions, and discuss things with one another in real time. they can curb their behavior 100%. even if they choose not to do so, they would have to behave in a dangerous manner for their roommates to kick them to the curb. “being weird” is… existing. wearing cosplay around the house, changing your voice and name you identify by, having odd tastes.. is not enough to claim discrimination. and honestly? if you act so off the wall you make other people uncomfortable, plural or singlet, you have no right to complain when removed from a household.
you ARE expected to behave a certain way when renting with strangers - plural, singlet, otherkin, non-kin. it is a social skill you must utilize. it is an integral law of polite society.
as i’ve said with this whole debate, it is not about discrimination, it is about attention. multiples without disordered plurality who seek “plural friendly housing” are hoping someone will identify who is out and when and validate identities by catering to each individual’s needs.
it is NEVER about safety when you have complete and total control of yourselves. you are the ones who make the conscious decision to make your plurality known. it is not relevant to your housing unless you WANT to make it so. there are very few situations where it’s acceptable to be completely open and honest about every aspect of your life with housemates who are strangers. friends? yes. strangers you are sharing a home with? no.
it is not about SAFETY when people are still under the (false) belief that all multiples have DID, and the secondary belief that DID systems have no communication. even if you explain non-disordered multiplicity, as you have seen on Tumblr, some people do not believe it. YOU ARE BECOMING AN EASY TARGET FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT, THEFT, AND OTHER MISCREANT BEHAVIOR by DISCLOSING YOUR PLURALITY.
for safety purposes it is SAFER TO STAY IN THE CLOSET so that no one will attempt to take advantage of your “disorder”. people taking advantage of you based on false perceptions of your mental state IS STILL NOT OPPRESSION.
being trans or LGB is not like multiplicity. this is where the fallacy in this oppression debate comes from. stop comparing them, even if you are trans, PoC, or LGB. you should know better.
this is a bad comparison
stop using it
Not totally failproof, but close to it, ways to tell if a group is oppressed or not:
- There are NO safe spaces for them. Every safe space they try to create is invaded in 2 seconds flat. (I really can’t emphasize this one enough. WHEN YOU NEVER HAVE A SAFE SPACE NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO, YOU CANNOT BE CONSIDERED NON-OPPRESSED.)
- The only way to get people to pay attention to other people telling them they’re completely fucked up and deserve to have their lives as they know it ruined is by telling the first group of people that the other people in question are targeting a different group as well.
- Their existence in a place is considered a sign that the place is going to crash and burn.
- They are raped for being members of that group.
- They are almost murdered for being members of that group.
- When they try to talk about the above two, something like 5 people believe them, and the rest-including people who would jump to the defense of that person if they were in a different group-claim they’re just making it up for attention.
- Them talking about their experiences is considered an opportunity to bully and abuse them.
- Many people actively wish they didn’t exist.
- In the face of overwhelming evidence, people continue to claim that the oppressed group aren’t oppressed, and just looking for attention/validation.
i can’t fucking even
you shit upon us and laugh at us
you rape and murder us and then turn around and say we made those stories up
you treat us as outcasts in the few places where we can seek refuge, treat us as freaks to be ‘gotten rid of’ to make yourselves look better in a place where we thought we could be free to be ourselves finally
you trigger the hell out of us and say it’s funny
you tell us to ‘get help’ for perfectly normal things, telling us we need therapy to destroy a major part of ourselves, a perfectly healthy major part that you and you alone have pronounced ‘bad’
you say that any logical person would hate us
you invade the semblances of safe spaces we carve out for ourselves
you make us terrified to share our experiences, lest we have hate spewed upon us
you bring us to tears from your rampant hatred and you watch us cry and tell us we’re overreacting
you say we don’t deserve to be treated as people
you threaten us with death, tell us to kill ourselves, for daring to be around you
you erase our existence and laugh in our faces when we ask for you to stop
you turn around
and you tell us
“it’s ridiculous for you to say you’re oppressed-
-but you’re a ridiculous group of people anyway, so why would we be surprised?”
and you don’t even see the hypocrisy as you laugh about it later with your ‘enlightened’ friends.
Every since becoming an actual “part” of the Tumblr ‘Kin community, my paranoia, phobias and other mental issues have inflamed tenfold. I’m literally terrified of coming out in real life as Wolfkin for fear I’ll end up beaten, or raped, or even killed, over it. I had a night terror where all of those things happened. I woke up in tears because of it and have been unable to sleep since.
I’m not in a stable state of mind anyways, due to my MDs, but you “trolls” hardly do anything to help. Congratulations, for contributing to the deterioration of my mental state. Thank you, for telling us to kill ourselves, saying we deserved to be raped, be killed, for merely existing. You aren’t funny. You aren’t witty. You’re damaging. I didn’t want to say anything but God dammit I fucking will. Get. The fuck. Out.
If you have any decency in you at all, you will leave us alone and stop it. Just. Stop it.
Stop oppressing us.
Oh what’s that you say? Otherkin aren’t oppressed?
Yeah, so go fuck yourself if you think we aren’t oppressed.
We’re treated cruelly, threatened, mocked, for simply existing.
I’m pretty fucking sure that fits the definition of oppression perfectly.